Does an Old AD apply to a New Model

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AskBob
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Does an Old AD apply to a New Model

This is a subject we receive many calls about. The basic scenario is a AD is issued in say 1990 and the applicability statement does not list specific models but lists a series of an aircraft i.e. Cessna 172s, Beech Hawkers etc. At a later date a new model is TC'd that is part of that series. Does the AD apply to this new model?

We receive phone calls from IA on both sides.

What say you?

Does a 1990 AD apply to an aircraft certified in 2000?

Would you list it in the logbooks as NA or "Fix incorporated by Mfr"?

Would you perform the inspection?

Would you not list anything?

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Stacheair1
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Each AD contains an applicability statement specifying the product (aircraft, aircraft engine, propeller, or appliance) to which it applies. Some aircraft owners and operators mistakenly assume that AD's do not apply to aircraft with other than standard airworthiness certificates. Unless specifically stated, AD's apply to the make and model set forth in the applicability statement regardless of the classification or category of the airworthiness certificate issued for the aircraft. Type certificate and airworthiness certification information are used to identify the product affected. Limitations may be placed on applicability by specifying the serial number or number series to which the AD is applicable. When there is no reference to serial numbers, all serial numbers are affected.

Most AD’s I have seen use make, model and serial number. If the AD does not apply the mechanic should state the AD does not apply and why in the method of compliance statement.

Pavel Perez (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

Dear Bob,

Mostly of the time the ADs are link to a service bulletin or a service letter where maybe you can find more informations. When an OEM design a new model, they incorparate any AD, service bulletin, service letter or modification that was issue to a previous production model.

Is this the case?

What is the AD #?

posted by Pavel Perez via LinkedIn

AskBob
AskBob's picture

This is the type of call I receive many times on many ADs. Two months ago it was a AD on a STC where the AD listed the STC and the models. The STC has been revised with new models. The debate was on if the AD was issued against the STC did the added models also come under the AD.
This months question is on AD 92-06-05. The AD Applicability says: "Model DH/BH/HS/BAe 125 series airplanes, except Model BAe125-1000A series airplanes, certificated in any category". The question from the caller: "Does this AD apply to a Hawker 800? As you suggest the SB helps, its' applicability says "Applicable to all DH/BH/HS 125 aircraft up to and including Series 800A and 800B".
The "NA" group says: the aircraft was introduces 2 years after the AD, the TC does not call it a 125-800 so it is not part of the series, the SB excludes it and the inspection required in the AD is part of the MM.
The caller and the "Yes" group say: it is still 125 series because it is part of the same TC, it has the same MLG as is covered by the AD and the SB applicability is superseded by the AD applicability.

art boiteau (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

If you purchase the aircraft new after the AD date the factory must ensure that all AD are up to date prior to release.

Posted by art boiteau via LinkedIn

Buffa Paolo (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

on line of principle .... yes. But the technical director must to made some consideration about the things. If the part is not changed on the new model, and the contents of the AD is applicable ... I will apply on the fleet.
Art, you're right, but if there is a repetitive AD? I can check that the first application has been performed by the manufacturer, but the following application remain on my responsability ...

good question!

Posted by Buffa Paolo via LinkedIn

David Farmer (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

All ADs are required to be in compliance on a new airframe at time of the issuance of the Certificate of Airworthiness. This includes any terminating action for the AD. If the AD has no terminating action included then the manufacturer is only required to have accomplished the initial action. And the AD will remain in force until a revision that includes a terminating action is issued.

Posted by David Farmer via LinkedIn

John Mitros (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

Happened in Bangor, Me. some years ago when an older model of military helicopter was refurbished and sold on the civilian market. Several AD's, old AND new were disregarded. FAA started action against the refurbishing company, but backed off when proper explanations were made.BUT: they were initially prepared to throw the book at the refurbisher.

Posted by John Mitros via LinkedIn

Jeffrey Nash (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

As to the question: I would say the applicability of the AD is always case by case. The OEM is likely very aware of the AD, and has worked with the FAA/JAA on the specific wording of the AD prior to its being issued. They're required to comply with all applicable ADs prior to each aircraft leaving their facilities. BUT, if I'm the guy whose signing for the maintenance at an MRO or other maintenance facility I'm ALWAYS going to investigate whether the AD applies, and if so, whether it's been properly complied with. In 25 years I've found a few which should have been completed by the OEM but were not.

Posted by Jeffrey Nash via LinkedIn

Klaus Siebert (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

If the AD not specificly defines Make and Model, Serialnumber Range or other limiting factors. The AD is to be considered applicable and the operator/owner will have to look into his specific Airframe to find out if the Airframe meets the requirements of the specific AD.
A Statement from the Aircraf Manufacturer which states that the specific Airframe complies is helpfull. But on the end of the day the operator/owner needs to comply, get an AMOC approved or needs to demonstrate to hid local Airworthiness Authority that the specific AD is not applicable.

Posted by Klaus Siebert vis LinkedIn

Marion Siuta (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

Bob:

With regard to 96-06-05, my opinion is the Hawker 800 is not included. The AD specifically states applicable only to the DH/BH/HS BAe125 series airplanes. If it was the FAA's intent to include other aircraft such as the Hawker 800 they would have done so. i.e.

Airworthiness Directives; Raytheon Corporate Jets Models DH/BH/ HS/BAe 125-1A to -700A Series Airplanes; BAe 125-800A Airplanes; and Hawker 800 Series Airplanes

Regarding looking to the SB for applicability guidance, I disagree. the SB is merely there to provide instructions for complying with the requirements of the AD and is otherwise a non-authoritative document. One should look only to the AD for applicability unless the AD states otherwise.

NOT TO BE CONSTRUED AS RENDERING LEGAL ADVICE.

Lawrence (Larry... (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

I had this scenario recently while carrying out an annual inspection on a PA28 Cherokee. I found an AD that required a placard adjacent to the throttle control. Although the aircraft was built after the AD came out the placard was not installed. The AD referred to all PA28s so I installed the placard. If in doubt comply with the AD if it is applicable, you can't go wrong that way! Nobody ever got hauled over the coals by the FAA for carrying out an AD that was not necessary. (The owner might complain at the bill though)

Posted by Lawrence (Larry) Simpkins via LinkedIn

Bob Pasch (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

Bob, the answer to your question lies in the AD itself! As one of your commentors already stated, each AD has an applicability section which gives the limitations or span of the AD. The FAA has changed its verbiage in recent years so the later ADs (post 1990s) are more clear to the maintenance community. Years ago, they issued ADs with phraseology like... "beginning with serial number 0001 and on." i.e. a 1978 AD on a Piper PA-28 worded from serial number 28-0001 and on, technically applies to ALL PA-28 aircraft whose S/Ns begin with 28-something higher than 0001.

Now, we all know that the modifications from the AD are made during manufacture on post AD aircraft however any IA performing an Annual Inspection must address that AD! After verifying the change was incorporated in the design, my sign off on this example would be "N/A by date of manufacture".

So is it possible an AD is applicable to newer aircraft, engines, propellers or appliances? The answer is yes! But it doesn't necessarily mean a correction or modification of the item must occur...

Ozório Coutinho (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

If the later model still don't comply this generic AD - a rare situation. It's applicable! But thi is bizzare. Some modification is suspected for that " status quo ante" !

Posted by Ozório Coutinho via LinkedIn

Ozório Coutinho (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

If the later model still don't comply this to such old and generic AD - a rare situation, than It's applicable!
But this is a bizzare situation, since manufacturers are constantly running compliance requirements in their industry. An very recent AD is usually object of quick recalls. Some irregular modification is suspected for the re-incurrency in that illegal " status quo ante" , when the time between the production of the aircraft and issuance is more than 90 days, and the company don't step up and spread the re-calls!

Posted by Ozório Coutinho via LinkedIn

Ozório Coutinho (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

Then, after the vacation period it goes by SB's and other letters. Before that, hands on in the fabric and/or its maintenance representives ...

Posted by Ozório Coutinho via LinkedIn

Rustom Sutaria (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

I am inclined to agree with Klaus Siebert, and determine compliance by aircraft s/n or year of build. In response to your question regarding the Type Certificate, it may not necessarily apply, as the new model may have already been modified through a later TC amendement or even an STC. Either way, this is terra incognita, and you should tread carefully.

Posted by Rustom Sutaria via LinkedIn

Klaus Siebert (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

Lets make this discussion even moree complicated.
Are we talking about American build Aircraft and American TC and American AD's? Or
shall we intermix the situation a little bit. What about a brasilian Build Aircraft and an australian or perhaps european AD?
In ths case I beleve it is the owners/operators responsibility to ensure that the aircraft complies with the AD. The TC Holder will not follow all qeneric AD's issued worldwide.

Posted by Klaus Siebert via LinkedIn

AskBob
AskBob's picture

OK, Klaus... now you are just trying to make me go crazy :)

But you are right, once you move out of the little world inside the US you have country of origin, local CAA and other complications....And we do this because we love it?!

Prasanth (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

Hi to all,

Regarding the Old AD's applicability, It depends on what object it is applicable.

Like if the AD is related to the Airframe structure than obviously the Manufacturer will Include the AD in the next revision of Maintenance Manual and also of the next releasing Aircrafts, if the AD is repeatable.
If the AD is not repeatable - they will just add it in the MM for one time performance.

If the AD is related to the Other Equipment installed on the Aircraft, you have to see those released dates & Maintenance Manuals, and its the same story...!

It is the optimal solution to contact the Manufacturer Customer support to know if the Repeatable / non repeatable AD is included In the MM or performed by them before releasing the new aircraft.

The New Revisions of MM's which come up are just the updation of the related equipment AD's / SB's / suppliments etc..!

Thank you.

Alan Quackenbush (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

I'd say if the newer aircraft model is manufactured under the same type certificate, is part of the series, the AD applies.

Posted by Alan Quackenbush via LinkedIN

Guillermo Brenke (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

• Hi, I agree with Alan. However, not necessarily a new model has to be delivered with the AD already done by the manufacturer, our duty is to read the AD to confirm if it apply or not, probably it won't apply by S/N, specific model, manufacture date, etc.

via LinkedIn

Dan Parker (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

Here is an example, AD 74-08-09 R2 Lavatory receptacles, is from 1974 as the AD number would indicate and we are still required to ensure that it is accounted for on all the aircraft in our fleet and to re-check at 1000 hour intervals unless I am mistaken. We have G-550's on our cert and we still have to account for it. Also, smoking on airliners has been illegal for some time now domestically and you still have to have ash receptacles on board and if one is missing you are grounded...strange stuff...

via LinkedIn

Charles-Eric De... (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

We quote all AD's applicable to the airframe, engine, propeller if applicable and appliance with mention Not Applicable by P/N, by S/N,by category,or complied by design or by maintenance schedule. by this way we show that we are aware to the AD's and the owner (operator) and authorities are satisfied.

via LinkedIn

Dan Parker (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

Excellent response Charles-Eric; that is how you steer clear of regulatory issues, by accounting for everything in some way

via LinkedIn

AskBob
AskBob's picture

NTSB paper at http://www.twa800.com/ntsb/8-15-00/docket/Ex_11N.pdf

On does a existing AD apply to new aircraft the paper states:

"Request to Clarify Applicability of Requirements to New Airplanes
One commenter requests that the proposal be revised to clairify what inspection actions would be required of new airplanes that are delivered after the effective date of the AD. The commenter states that the proposal is not clear whether the AD applies to these new airplanes or not, and, if it does apply, when the first inspection is required.
The FAA does not consider that any further clarification of the applicability of the AD is necessary. The applicability statement of the AD clearly indicates that it is applicable to “all Model 747 and 757 airplanes.” This includes airplanes delivered now or
in the future; it is not limited to any range of existing airplanes. Since the configuration of the subject area on all of these airplanes, from the earliest manufactured to the most
recent, is similar, all are subject to the unsafe condition addressed by this AD.

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